Good example Lovey!
LDM - I will take a stab at this! First of all, I commend you on the respectful discussion we had on the SWK thread. I appreciated the effort you made on that thread to stay within the bounds I set up, for not using any negative connotations about mine and others comments and for sticking to only expressing your own thoughts and reasoning. Clearly it didn't change my thoughts nor yours- but that was not my purpose - and I did not think it would! I was just trying to understand you better - and help you to understand me better - and also see if we could have one discussion without it getting negative and combative. I think we succeeded on both!
If you will go back and look at the rules I set up - you will find some things that upset people and that offends them! This is a forum for the purpose of discussing sexual matters from LDS members viewpoints! And everyone has different viewpoints and opinions to share ! This is not a debate team - to prove things or a place where people come to find a definitive stance on church doctrine. Nor is it a class with a teacher and students. That is not to say that we don't learn on this forum - cause we do learn - we learn from each other through sharing and discussing the various topics - in a respectful manner - all on the same playing field (life) - with no one above another (in other words, we all struggle with something).
You ask "'That view is invalid', what do you think they mean by that?" I think a person means that they have judged the view presented and found it lacking for whatever reason. When I see the word invalid - it simply tells me that the person using that word has made a negative judgment towards what was expressed and is now demeaning or dismissing the person's view as wrong or not pertinent. When I hear the word valid and invalid - I basically hear - that is invalid (that is wrong - not worth considering) - this is valid (this is right and should be considered). When any kind of negative judgmental statements are made (no matter what words are used) - immediately a negative environment is created/ Most people generally tend to avoid negative environments because they are uncomfortable and yucky feeling. Stating that someone's argument is invalid puts the person on the defensive and makes them feel like their words are being attacked - like their words are being dismissed. So why use those words - It really serves no purpose and it does not add anything helpful or positive to the discussion that follows - other than to state ones judgment call . What it does - is create negative feelings and makes people not want to read what follows. Instead of saying that what the person wrote is invalid and a more valid argument would be... - why not just say I am not sure I understand your reasoning - this is the way I see it - or ask for clarification if you don't follow the logic? If you don't agree - just state - I don't agree and here is why...! Keep all of your statements geared towards "I" or in other words yourself. I think, this is how I read that, what I see here, in my opinion, etc. What I find most offensive about negative judgmental words like invalid, wrong, etc. is they portray the person who uses them as one who thinks they have the answers to everything, when someone uses those words, they are basically saying they are the one who thinks logical and their reasoning is valid - while the person the comment is directed at is not logical and their reasoning is invalid. Very few people, if anyone, react positively to negative judgments words like these, so they are not very productive words - imo.
Other judgment calls - like stating something is a fact or something is not a fact causes problems with other posters also. While it may be a fact that a prophet said something somewhere - defining what the prophet meant is always an interpretation. What makes one's interpretation more valid than someone else's?? To address the other part of your question - "Do you think there is ever such a thing as an opinion that really is invalid? If so, by what standard to you separate a valid from an invalid opinion?" As far as I am concerned - because of the purpose of this forum - we should assume everyone's opinion is valid - and that there are no invalid opinions? There might be opinions we don't agree with - or ones that don't even make sense to us - but to state that someone's opinions on open discussion forums like this are invalid or wrong - closes off discussions with a negative dismissal and discourages further discussion. It is not helpful and does not contribute to the purpose of the forum. So in my opinion these types of words should not be used here. Instead of using negative judgment statements about others opinions or ideals - I think it is better to stick with stating your own ideals and opinions and beliefs.
Now to address this last question "If somebody is very, very wrong on something that is important, is it kinder to say 'I agree to disagree' or to try and convince them to change their mind about that thing?" Again - I go back to the purpose of this forum - it is a discussion forum - not a DEBATE - not a doctrine essentials class!!! We don't come here to be taught - we come here to have an open honest discussion - to express our feelings, our thoughts, and ideals - in a respectful environment - where we are not criticized or demeaned - to read what others think and feel - and sometimes to work things out in our own head. Often we learn from what others write - but it is human nature to not be open to being told we are wrong - even when we are! So I would definitely say - that on a forum - it is not only kinder - it is more respectful and helpful to just say I agree to disagree - after one has already stated their opinion - and the other person does not see things the same way. Once the info is shared - it is up to the other to accept it or not. Pounding it over and over - insisting they are wrong over and over - simply is not an effective way to convince anyone of anything - at least I know it never works on me and I have yet to see it work on anyone I know. It did not work well on my kids either - and trust me I tried several times!!!
I think it is fairly safe to say that very few people (if anyone) likes to be corrected for what they think, feel, or write! I don't think anyone comes here to this forum to be preached at - to be told they are wrong and their statements are invalid - or to be made to feel that what they say or think has no validity at all! And when those things have occur - this forum feels uncomfortable, negative, and contentious - people get offended, and they leave! The same goes for the name-callings and putting others down with insults, and other negative comments - all of which I know has happened in several posts directed at you, LDM! That also has no place here and creates an uncomfortable and contentious forum. I admire that you, for the most part ignored them and did not engage in doing the same back.
LDM, you have a perspective and viewpoint that is just as important as anyone else's here - and many times you made me think deeper and caused me to do more research, and question my own thinking about some topics. I also think you have some good insights and life experiences to share with others that is and can be extremely helpful. I think it is possible to share one's perspective and viewpoint, to state what one firmly believes, to help others - without using words with negative connotations, and making others feel defensive and demeaned.
