I'm done.

[mariabronn]

Can he do it? Tick tick tock tick tock . . .

[Lovey]

Hmmm, don't think a line like that helps Mariabronn.

[JustGettingBy]

I would agree with lovely on both points, both state your case and don't feel like you MUST post a few pages of defense for every other post. And I agree that the "can he do it" comment was not helping anything. I sense that LDM is trying to understand and I do think it is possible that he does see the world differently and has felt like his efforts here and elsewhere are honest and faithful. I know that he helped rob4hope quite a bit during his hard few years.

Maybe you feel he is pulling your leg or somehow disingenuous, but I say give him the benefit of the doubt. He is asking for help in his blind spot. We all have them remember.

[mariabronn]

Hmmm, don't think a line like that helps Mariabronn.

I was just starting my countdown timer, you know, to see how long before he jumped in. Its like that 60 minutes show countdown clock, that Stopwatch on TV on Sunday night ;8-)

[LatterDay Marriage]

I'm honestly asking for somebody to explain to me in a way I can understand

Here is what I see happening here with you. It reminds me of a discussion I had with my mother over peeling potatoes. For my entire married life, I prefer to peel potatoes with a knife rather than a potato peeler. Yes, I know it wastes a bit of potato in the process. It does allow me to cut away bad knots or spots that a peeler won't touch. So one day my mother asks me to peel some potatoes for her. She can't stand that I am using a knife rather than a peeler. She becomes more and more adamant that I do things her way and that my way is completely inferior. She refuses to listen. She continues to demand that I switch to a peeler. She won't allow the idea that using a knife is an acceptable alternative to using a peeler.

Ok, LDM. This is how I see you with some of your "M" posts. You state your opinion which is fine to do. I'm sure others here share that opinion. What happens though is that you never concede that someone else opinion may have validity. Allow yourself to state an opinion once and know that it will be accepted or not without feeling a need to keep posting the same opinion over and over again. Allow others to have a different opinion without a comeback.

Work with me a bit on this....

If somebody says 'That view is invalid', what do you think they mean by that?

Do you think there is ever such a thing as an opinion that really is invalid?

If so, by what standard to you separate a valid from an invalid opinion?

[JustGettingBy]

Just say, "we will have to agree to disagree on this one". You are not backing down from your stance not telling them they are wrong. Refuting point by point often just becomes an argument. Not that you never debate or bring up a point, but when that same backing for an argument is brought up over and over and it didn't change anothers mind the last time - that to me is just comes across as "if I just say it enough times they will see how clear it is to me"

Oh wait - were you asking lovely and not me. Excuse me if I stepped in.

[LatterDay Marriage]

Just say, "we will have to agree to disagree on this one". You are not backing down from your stance not telling them they are wrong. Refuting point by point often just becomes an argument. Not that you never debate or bring up a point, but when that same backing for an argument is brought up over and over and it didn't change anothers mind the last time - that to me is just comes across as "if I just say it enough times they will see how clear it is to me"

Oh wait - were you asking lovely and not me. Excuse me if I stepped in.

No problem, if you can read it and there is a reply button for it, it's fair game in my book.

Some other questions though;

If somebody is very, very wrong on something that is important, is it kinder to say 'I agree to disagree' or to try and convince them to change their mind about that thing?

As for the repetition, I don't expect everybody to have read and remembered every post I've made, so if replying to a post where it seems from the content of the post that the poster is unaware of something I said before, I tend to say it again. Is that unreasonable to you?

[JustGettingBy]

Good question. I assume you come from a framework that wants to respect authority and when you feel you have the answer in flashing red lights with bells and whistles going off, you have a hard time not wanting to share this.

What I generally would say is that you can admit that hold your viewpoint to be of great importance and something that you hope others seriously consider. But then you can still agree to disagree. What does God do when his children disobey. He does try to get their attention, but if they won't listen he doesn't (generally) turn the volume way up.

Take my $0.02 with a grain of salt (unless you have high blood pressure )

[LatterDay Marriage]

Good question. I assume you come from a framework that wants to respect authority and when you feel you have the answer in flashing red lights with bells and whistles going off, you have a hard time not wanting to share this.

That's pretty accurate.

What I generally would say is that you can admit that hold your viewpoint to be of great importance and something that you hope others seriously consider. But then you can still agree to disagree. What does God do when his children disobey. He does try to get their attention, but if they won't listen he doesn't (generally) turn the volume way up.

Can't say I see that pattern in the scriptures. He sends his servants to teach and warn the people to the point that they want to kill them they get so sick of hearing them preach. And why does he go that far? Because he cares about them that much.

[Bryan_LDS_husband]

If somebody is very, very wrong on something that is important....

I think this is the crux of what I have found frustrating about some of your posts in the past. You seem to have put yourself in the position of declaring what is right and what is wrong. Now, you MAY be right. And the other person MAY be wrong. But, for the sake of a polite discussion, you will always come across as being a much nicer, more enjoyable person if you refrain from saying, "I am right, and you are wrong."

There is also this to consider as well: "Right" and "Wrong" may not always be absolutes. You clearly view M as a black and white topic. In your mind, it's just simply wrong, and anyone who disagrees with you is wrong. And you jump all over anyone who views the practice with any degree of grey and you tell them, "You are just plain wrong!"

On the receiving end, it is brutally painful to have a conversation with someone who is taking this approach. But that's the lesser point I am trying to make. The larger point is that ultimately, YOU do not get to decide what is right and what is wrong for everyone on this forum. You only get to decide what is right and wrong for you.

You would come across so much more palatable if you would say, "I've studied the issue, and I've come to a different conclusion for myself. Here's some of the supporting evidence that has helped me make up my mind...."